THIS IS FINDON VILLAGE - Gun Emplacement?

THIS IS FINDON VILLAGE — www.findonvillage.com created by Valerie Martin, contains scenes from her home village of Findon, West Sussex, U.K.

GUN EMPLACEMENT?

November 2005 — Looking north towards Chanctonbury Ring (far left on the horizon).

This little area on the north side of the summit of Cissbury Ring has always puzzled me. Could this have been a relic of the Second World War?

Another view of the same dip in the ground.

I understand that there were concealed Observation Posts around the edge of the Ring and these were roofed over with about 3 ft of soil, with room for four or five people inside.

In February 2006 I came across Richard James who was conducting an archaeological field survey at the Cissbury hillfort.

During conversation he told me that this particular dip on the north side of Cissbury Ring could have been the remains of the position of a searchlight during the Second World War.

Nearby there are apparently two further depressions (one now overgrown with gorse bushes) that would have been gun emplacements.

X Marks the spot..... a dip in the ground suggesting the site of a searchlight on the northern side of Cissbury Ring. Looking south..... English Channel is in the distance.

Suzie and her sister Katie pounding along the ramparts of the Iron Age Fort of Cissbury Ring in February 2006.

The National Trust own Cissbury Ring and in February 2006 they wrote....

"The breach in the rampart was made during World War II to make way for a 100lb gun, which fired at ships at sea.

An anti-aircraft gun was sited in the hollow beside the breach".

The above statement I have discovered is incorrect. I have found that the breach is clearly detailed on the map below made by R. Gurd in 1930...... long before the Second World War. The National Trust apparently did not check this.

My guess is that the army merely used the breach to get their gun through the ramparts and up to the summit. Would this 100 lb gun have been a 6" Howitzer firing 100lb shells I wonder?

You can see that the majority of the centre of the camp is covered by a series of fascinating lynchets, or cultivation terraces. These I think outline fields with characteristics of the agriculture of the Early Iron Age and Roman periods. Was the Cissbury hillfort one of the capital "cities" of the district in this area?

The terracing is supposed to have been produced by the accumulation of earth along the lower edges of cultivated areas resulting from the combined efforts of the ancient plough and rain-wash on the land.

Richard James conducting his field survey on the Ring has told me that this "breach" on the southern side was also mentioned in documents written by Colonel Augustus H. Lane Fox back in Victorian times — (he later changed his name when in his fifties to Lieutendant-General Augustus H. Pitt Rivers when he came into an inheritance).

X marks the spot. The "breach" in the ramparts on the southern side of Cissbury Ring.

11th February 2006

Dear Valerie,

Gun Emplacements on Cissbury Ring

I think the National Trust have been having their collective legs pulled!!!! If there had been "big gun" emplacements on the top, there would have been a permanent guard living up there and much more evidence remaining. We used to roam freely except when firing was in progress.

There were two observation posts, one where your present blemish is situated looking to the north over stump bottom, another looking south and dug into the ramparts above the firing range. Both were covered by corrugated iron roofs with turf on top.

If the archeologists do a dig there, they should find the equivalent to a machine gun nest. The one on the north side was used frequently for live firing and we regularly used to sort through hundreds of cartridge cases to sift out the misfires which provided us with a constant supply of cordite. Doubtless there will still be a number of such cases buried in the remains of the OP.

I wonder where the National Trust got their story from!! I should be VERY surprised if there was any truth in it.

Keep em coming! ............ Mike.

Mike Cooksey, Bristol, Gloucestershire.

I guess that most of the surrounding hilltops housed guns and slit trenches. For instance on neighbouring Highdown Hill, a Radar Station was built during the war and was surrounded by dugouts and machine gun posts (damaging some of the archaeology in the process).

Food for thought.... on Cissbury Ring.

Here are the facts.... photographic expedition on Cissbury Ring conducted in February 2006......

Breach on the south side near the South Wood....looking north

The "breach" in the ramparts overlooking the sea in the far distance on a misty February morning....

From the breach ..... looking southwards.

My "Little Helper", Suzie, demonstrates the "modern cutting" (breach) in the ramparts on the southern side of Cissbury Ring.

I cannot quite see why the army would go to all the effect to bring a gun in this way during the Second World War.... it would have been much easier to have come in by the East Gate....... but it could have been a gun emplacement. This dashes the National Trust's idea.....

"The breach in the rampart was made during World War II to make way for a 100lb gun, which fired at ships at sea.

An anti-aircraft gun was sited in the hollow beside the breach".

20th February 2006

Dear Valerie

The Cissbury 100 Pounder

CONGRATULATIONS ! ..... The National Trust have written to me today accepting that maybe they were wrong. They wrote-

I am not entirely sure where this information came from, although the breach that was purported to have been created to position the gun can still be seen in the southern rampart overlooking Vineyard Hill. Worthing Museum Service produced a leaflet in 1986 that said

"During the 2nd World War a number of trenches where dug on Cissbury and gun emplacements were dug into the ramparts of the hill fort."

We are undertaking a complete archaeological review for Cissbury this year and that will almost certainly throw further light on the subject."

Glynn Jones
The National Trust

Then shortly afterwards there followed this accolade to your web site.

You will be interested to look at the link below, We could have been misleading people for years.

www.findonvillage.com/0864_gun_emplacement.htm

Glynn Jones
The National Trust

When the National Trust recognises you as an expert ... that is fame indeed!

We can all now await the findings of the archeological review. If digging is required, doubtless Katie and Susie will be happy to lend a paw.

Every good wish ............ Mike.

Mike Cooksey, Bristol.

I guess the "archaeological review" that was mentioned was, in fact, the one that has been conducted over the past couple of weeks and is now completed.

Anyhow, if anyone else doing a further "archaeological review" turns up within the next few months...... I will send Suzie and Katie to flush them out and will report back.

Here's another map that has come to light from E. A. Allen's book, "The Prehistoric World" Pub 1885. This clearly shows the "breach" at that date too.

20th February 2006

Valerie

Cissbury

I have spent a very interesting afternoon exploring your web-page, I was the first NT warden appointed to look after Cissbury (amongst a range of other NT sites in West Sussex) in 1979.

Your pages are a delight to read and also very informative.

I found you as a result of a search to answer a query about the alleged gun emplacement on the south side,

I found your information on this fascinating.

I have found a few points that I might disagree with but who is to say that I am correct.

I was told recently by the daughter of Con Ainsworth (Worthing Archaeologist) that she was the person who actually found the skeleton at Cissbury in the 1950's. She said her father sent her into the shaft because she was the only one on site small enough to crawl in and she found the skeleton.

Unfortunately Con is now dead so we can't ask him to confirm her memory.

I would love to meet up for a chat, if you are a regular at the ring we must have met at some time.

I was responsible for mowing the grass maze on Cissbury, Martin Frost a Worthing artist and I designed and executed it. It was not intended as a hoax but as a bit of fun for children of all ages who visit the site.

Glynn Jones, National Trust Property Manager, Slindon, West Sussex.

You say that there are a few points that you disagree with on my website, Glynn. I do try hard to get everything correct...... and would be grateful for any input that you have to make corrections. It is very easy for me to alter anything that I may have got wrong. Looking forward to hearing from you.

This brings me to the hollow beside the breach on the southern side of the Ring ....

Shetland Sheepdogs are excellent for pointing out things of interest. Suzie sends her sister to indicate a circular hollow at the top of the "breach".

This is dip in the landscape is shown on the 1930's map so can't be anything to do with the Second World War.... but the army could have sited an anti-aircraft gun in the depression. .

It is some 15 -20 ft. across.

Please do not suggest it is a dew-pond.... because it isn't I'm sure !

A trudge across the summit brought us to the northern side of Cissbury Ring and the "Modern Breach" also shown on the 1930s map....

Suzie says "Here it is.... who do you think made it.... and why... quite a bit of digging was involved".

Archaeology is quite beyond me and I am quite baffled by it all..

Continue if you would like to read about A December Walk on Cissbury Ring.

Back to Main Index

Back to Cissbury Ring Index

Back to Main Index

THIS IS FINDON VILLAGE — www.findonvillage.com is a continually growing record created by Valerie Martin exclusively for documenting life in Findon.

E-mail: valeriemartin@findonvillage.com